The trinity

The trinity

Since I attacked oneness it is only fair that I defend the trinity. While it is true that the bible does not use the word "trinity" nor does it directly say "God is three persons in one essence" it does explain God in this way. Oneness theologians say "one means one", yet when it comes to John 17 (read the previous post on oneness for an explanation) they make excuses. So here are some scriptures that explain the correct view.

First two verses that name them separately. Before I get started here I want to explain the definite article "the". here is a definition.
The definite article is generally used to indicate a specific thing or set of things (e.g. "the book" as opposed to "a book," etc). There is also an important reflexive use of the definite article, in which it is used in a reflexive sense to indicate someone or something that belongs to, has some relation to, or is a physical part of the subject (e.g. when the Greek literally says "the boy reads the book," it may actually mean "the boy reads his book"). The context will determine when the definite article is being used in this reflexive sense.
So with this in mind, let's go through these verses.

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
There are three things or persons here. Three bear record. The Father, The Word, The Holy Ghost. Not the Father who becomes the Word but the Word. As in there are many things generically called the word but this is the Word.
When we get to John 1 this will become very important.

Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
In this verse we need to look at the sentence structure. Lets say I asked for a cup of coffee, cream and sugar. A waiter would get me a cup of coffee with cream and sugar in it. Now let's say I asked for a cup of the coffee, a cup of the cream, and a cup of the sugar. If they did not bring me three cups they would be fired. In the previous verse the term "in the name" is implied before each title. So instead of "in the name of the Father,Son,And Holy Ghost" it is "in the name of the Father, and in the name of the Son, and in the name of the Holy Ghost". Three separate commands, three separate persons. To explain this clearer, I want to get into John 1.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
When the article "the" is used, it indicates a specific thing. When it is not used, it does the opposite. There is no indefinite article. Let's say I said "in a beginning was a word". You would have no idea when this beginning was nor who this word was. Now in context of the Bible, do we know when the beginning is? Gen 1:1 tells us the beginning was when God created. So creation is the context of beginning. Also the Word is Christ in context. Now in the Greek "the" is not before beginning in this verse. So beginning does not mean creation here but it means beginning. When is that? We don't know. But we do know "the" is before Word. So the word spoken about here is the Word. not a concept or something that existed in God's mind, but the Word. How do I know? Because the Word was πρός (with) God. Here is the definition of the greek translated "with".
πρός
pros
pros
A strengthened form of G4253; a preposition of direction; forward to, that is, toward (with the genitive case the side of, that is, pertaining to; with the dative case by the side of, that is, near to; usually with the accusative case the place, time, occasion, or respect, which is the destination of the relation, that is, whither or for which it is predicated): - about, according to, against, among, at, because of, before, between, ([where-]) by, for, X at thy house, in, for intent, nigh unto, of, which pertain to, that, to (the end that), + together, to ([you]) -ward, unto, with (-in). In compounds it denotes essentially the same applications, namely, motion towards, accession to, or nearness at.
So the Word was face to face with God, not in his mind. The Word exsisted in a beginning we don't know face to face with the Father. Really simple if we look at what the word is saying instead of reading our own doctrine into it.

Now Hebrews 1. I will go through these verses and put notes in them.
Heb 1:1 God who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

God is speaking here about his Son. This is important to understand so we can read this passage in context.

Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Express image in the greek is charakter, which means exact copy. The other word translated "image" when it refers to Christ is eikon which means likeness. So he is not the Father, but an exact copy of him. When you make a copy of a paper you do not have one but two pages. They are just identical. Also the Son here sits at the right hand of God. You can sit by yourself but you cannot sit beside yourself. Of course you can be beside yourself with worry....

Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Christ was not an angel. That being said, what is meant by begotten? God did not mate with Mary. So is it possible that Christ already exsisted and he "became" the Son? When I married my wife she had three sons. They became my sons. Remember God was speaking to the Son here telling him he was begotten.

Heb 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Let all the Angels worship him. Not worship the Father through him or worship the Father in him, but worship him. Worship the Son. Worship him because he is God.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.
The Father himself just called the Son God. This destroys any theory that the Son has a human spirit. It also means that Father and Son are having a conversation. That requires two unless your crazy.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Heb 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
God calls him Lord and says The Son created.
Heb 1:11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Heb 1:12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
There is more ground to cover that I dont have time for here. So here is a verse list I made so you can study this.
Proverbs 8,Psa 33:6,
I cut and pasted this for a study.
The F., S., & H.S. are each called God (F., Phil. 1:2), (S., John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9), (H.S., Acts 5:3-4). Each has a will (F., Luke 22:42), (S., Luke 22:42), H.S., (1 Cor. 12:11). Each is all knowing (F., 1 John 3:20), (S., John 16:30; 21:17), (H.S., 1 Cor. 2:10-11), Each speaks (F., Matt. 3:17), (S., Luke 5:20., (HS., Acts 8:29; 13:2).

Why oneness theology is wrong

The scripture will show here why oneness theology is wrong.First I will explain three views of oneness that I have found. Christ the created being (the created son, not the created angel), Christ the human with God dwelling in him (he himself is human but the Father dwells in him), and Christ the Father robed in flesh(there is no other mind or conciseness in him only the Father). I am sure there are many more, but these three are the ones I will focus on.

To the first one, Gen 1:1 kills this idea. The belief is that the Father created the Son, and the Son created everything else. If the Son was created, he cannot be God. So if he is not God, then the verse would have to say "in the beginning the Son created". I'm sure they have an answer for this, but simple logic tells us it is impossible. In all other areas it is most like the second view.

The second view is that Christ is human, with God dwelling in him. Sounds ok right? God dwelt in human form, we all believe that. The difference here is that they believe Christ had a human spirit and that the Father dwelt in him. So Christ himself is not deity, but the Father is. When Christ claimed deity, it was the Father talking. When he claimed his humanity, the Son spoke. My first question to a group of these people was "how do we know who is speaking?" They said by what is being said. If he says "before Abraham was I AM" that is the Father talking. If he says "I must be about my Fathers business" that is Christ. Now that you know the background, let's look at some verses that kill this theology.

Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Let's dissect this verse. First we learn that the one speaking here came down from heaven. Then we learn he is not doing his own will. Then we learn he was sent by someone and that persons will is what he is doing. So is this God or the human speaking? Can't be God because he can not do another's will. Can't be the human because he was born, not come from heaven. When I presented this verse to a group there answer was "souls come down from heaven". Really? Where is that in the bible? No answer. Does the bible say Adam's soul came down from heaven? God breathed into his nostrils "and man became a living soul." Here's another.

Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

It is common for this group of oneness to separate the Father in Christ from the human in Christ by calling the human part the "Son of man" which points to his humanity. Of course this verse destroys that notion because the "son of man" was in heaven before and is going to return there. There are many verses like this but to save space here I will move on to the third group.

This group is nearest to my heart because this is the group I grew up in. The idea here is that God robed himself in flesh to live among us and to die for our sins. Sounds orthodox on the surface. But they mean that the Father robed himself in flesh, not the Son. They believe the Father became the Son when he did this. That there is no other mind in Christ but the Father(who had become the Son). So you may ask how they answer the Father speaking from heaven or who Christ was always praying and speaking to? What about in Hebrews 1 when the Father calls the Son God? Are they not having a conversation? Here is the answer(as best I can recall) given by the speaker on the radio show "there is hope for today" which is a u.p.c.i.(united pentecostal church international) radio ministry. God knowing ahead of time what he would ask and need, and knowing the miracles he would perform, pre-did these things in the past before he became the Son. So when as the Son he arrived at these events in history, God was performing these works. It's like a string of cosmic trip wires. as Christ crossed them, he triggered an event. This is not exact of course, but it gives you an overview of the theology. It answers allot of these questions. The two verses I used to discredit the second oneness view are explained by this theology. There are two problems with this theology though. The first is it does not exist. Look the bible over from cover to cover you will not find this anywhere. It is what is called "circular logic". Because God is singular, and this verse seems to deny that thought,then this must be correct. It is an attempt to justify theology rather than to explain a bible truth. Now that being said, I will give two sets of verses that clearly deny this teaching.

Joh 8:16 And yet if I judge, my judgment is true: for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me.
Joh 8:17 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

I am not alone, but I and the Father. Wow what a statement! Christ does not say him and his former self, but I and the Father. Now if you still believe after the first statement that God is one in person, then you make Christ a liar or a deceiver after the second statement, that He and the Father make two witnesses. If God the Father and God the Son are the same person just in different roles, then Christ lied here when he claimed there are two that bear witness. Now if you thought that was plain, read the next one.

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

You really should read all of John 17 if you want a good picture of the relationship of Father and Son. But I want to focus on the word one. If God the Father and God the Son are the same person, and that is what he means by "one", then how are we going to be one as they are? Does that mean that we will cease to exist as individuals? Verse 11 says "that they may be one, as we". If they are the same person, then we will be absorbed into God. 23 says "that they may be made perfect(completed) in one". We will be complete when we are one with God, not absorbed by him. John 17 shows the relationship between Father and Son, not between God's identities.

To be fair, I will give an answer for the trinity in my next post.

Welcome

I am starting this blog because there is a need for the Bible to be explained by someone other than people who have let there theology get in the way of interpreting the Bible. When you view scripture through your theology, you will be wrong most of the time. We need to stop asking the Calvins, Wesleys, and Luthers for their permission to believe what the Bible says is true. Do we believe Calvinists who say that God picks and chooses who He will save whether we like it or not? Or the followers of Wesley who say we are born sinless and can live in sinless perfection? It's time we read the Bible for ourselves and come to know Christ in truth. I will begin posting as I have the time.